FOF #587 – Raw Sugar

Aug 9, 2007 · 1985 views

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What are rectal microbicides? Scientists, activists and organizations are looking for creative new ways to increase the safety of our sexual activities, by putting microbicide into the lube everyone uses. We’re joined by our pal […]


  1. Gary T says:

    Fausto sounded like Varuka Salt when Jim said rectal microbicides weren’t available yet. “I want it noooowwwww!”

  2. Aleks says:

    This is now my favorite..I loved it and everyone seemed soo comfortable!!!!!1

  3. Cliff Dix says:

    Just the thought of a big sweaty hug from Liza should make every gay man want to put a rubber on. Great show you guys.

  4. Zara says:

    What a sweet guy Jim is!!! I din’t undestand the “raw sugar” thing though…copletely passed over my head…

    and yes Marc, “crisps” are “potato chips” over here, it’s odd to think that it’s not the international name for them! 🙂

  5. Raw references when people have sex without a condom. Raw sugar is less processed than white sugar.

  6. Eric says:

    I’m very interested in the “microbials”, as I think that if the research can be done and proven to protect people it would really work well (advertising, manufacturing, using etc).

    Good Show and did anyone else find that Jim being the chair of everything a bit humurous?

  7. Here is the photo of the Hello Kitty armband as punishment, thanks to Larry La Fontain!

  8. Jim is not a chair as much has he’s a whole dining room set. The guy stays busy. 🙂

  9. PupDon says:

    Speaking of someone who works in the porn industry, you are half right in regards to the Martha Stewart quote. Yes, it’s true that we shape people’s attitudes about sex, but if we weren’t giving people what they wanted then they wouldn’t tune in. With all the porn on the internet it’s a real fine line between pleasing your audience and pandering to them. You want to make your audience happy while exposing them to new things and ideas, so you do this dance where you find what their boundaries are and work from inside them, only veering outside of that circle as much as they’ll allow.

    As far as barebacking goes, we don’t promote it, but I think it’s up to the individual to make up their own minds after learning all they can about it. The thing is, saying adult companies should not make barebacking movies is like saying Hollywood shouldn’t make action films because it makes people want to go out and blow shit up. Stopping the movies is not going to stop the barebacking, but personally I think there needs to be education that explains the situation in a barebones, unapologetic way, telling it how it is and not worrying about offending people. HIV positive people know it sucks. You deal with it and live your life but it’s nothing to go looking for.

  10. PupDon says:

    Fausto, I love that armband. What do they do if the officer likes it and wants to wear it all the time? LOL! That would be me. Hee hee.

  11. Gary T says:

    With the Hello Kitty armband he looks like a gay cub scout.

  12. I think that it’s hard to make films of any kind and at the same time remain conscious of the impact the work has on your audience. If you’re making a film that glamorizes anti-social behavior, it certainly encourages your audience to follow through.

    I think that’s why we don’t see movies have too many characters smoking in them the way they used to in the past. The problem is, if the public is wanting to see imagery in your movie (snuff films, racial violence, overspending your credit) should you do it? I dont, but being against barebacking films follows the same logic as being against violent video games causing violence in schools.

    I wouldn’t buy or watch either of them, but I dont want any legislation around them either. My opinion is if we see something in a film that bothers us, we need to speak out against it to the point that it’s no longer considered glamorous (like smoking.)

  13. I just love Jim Pickett! I giggled every time he said “booty”. 🙂

  14. I really like non-smoking bareback movies.

    — DC. smoke-free. really great environment

  15. MoocherX says:

    Sorry if all this is said in the show – I lag by a couple of days because of when the weekend is in Kuwait as I listen to FoF to and from work.

    I exclusively watch bareback porn. Knowing that some guy gets the barrier-free feeling we’d all like (and some of us know *prefer*) makes it hotter for me to watch. With rubber on, I’m like “yeah yeah, we can all do that”.
    I just wonder when we all started kidding ourselves that no-one has bareback sex, or that for some the feeling of bareback is identical to doing it covered up?

    It’s about choice and knowing facts upon which intelligent people can determine what level of risk they’re preparing to open themselves up to. Straight people in committed relationships have bareback sex – hey, that’s where babies come from you know. I don’t see why it should be any different to gay guys having bareback sex in a committed relationship. Could something go wrong? Of course. Like it can for any straight couple too.

  16. MoocherX says:

    p.s. I live in Thailand and some of those policemen in their brown uniforms (not necessarily the one you’ve pictured) can look darrrrrrned hot. Unfortunately Hello Kitty is goddamned everywhere in Thailand. I’ll send you a bunch of Hello Kitty crap… what model of cellphones do you have?

  17. jimberly says:

    Hey, I really had a great time on the show. I gotta agree with MoocherX —- why is it that when straight people bareback, we throw a SHOWER but when a gay guy even admits he is interested in this, so many of us go ballistic? Having bareback sex is, after all, NATURAL SEX. And this is why I am so into getting rectal microbicides out there. If we can offer some protection to guys who don’t want to, or can’t for whatever reason, use condoms – wouldn’t that be fantastic? Please visit our International Rectal Microbicide Working Group website at to learn more…. And I look forward to coming back and saying BOOTY some more….

  18. The whole stigma of bareback sex being unsafe is kinda flawed… I do it all the time and am in no danger of contracting any disease. Why? I do it with my boyfriend, whom I know is clean, and only him.

    The issue should be with “high risk sex” (such as one night stands or multiple partners) and not bare back sex (which is only high risk if you don’t know the facts about yourself or your partner). If you’re going to engage in sex acts where you are at risk, and not protect yourself, then you’re basically jumping out of a plane with no parachute.

    Great show today guys! Moth dust is so gonna be a new catch phrase

  19. Brain-fork, you might be safe with your boyfriend because you really trust him, it seems, but a LOT of people are getting HIV through sex with someone they trusted and/or are partnered with. They might ‘forget’ to get tested when they couple up, both assuming they are negative and then BOTH end up positive. Or at some point one of the partners screws around unsafe, is too ashamed to say anything to his bf, taking his chances, and they both lose. It is not that black and white – it is NOT just the people with multiple partners that get HIV, it’s mostly flawed humans like you and me who make one foolish decision and pay for it.
    I would say even with those micro-thingies, you’d have to be very careful because at some point a resistant strain might bypass it. A condom just stops ALL the virusses if used properly. I would love the stuff, however, to work in combination with condoms. But I am a bit afraid it would make a lot of people just try to rely on the Micro-goo.
    Personally I don’t get the big resistence many men have about condoms. In a perfect world I would not use them either, but people, we are not just connecting through the dick. The condom is in no way a deciding factor for me in how intimate sex feels. Especially with a stranger, it’s never worth the risk. I could only understand it within a relationship – such as Brain-forks case – realising however that I am taking my chances.

  20. I pretty much agree with you entirely Steve, and it’s that reason that I am disappointed with the human race. The fact that people “forget” to get tested basically means they are not being safe themselves because they are more likely not forgetting and simply putting it off. As for the boyfriend screwing around behind your back (and I don’t mean you specifically) that points to an other issue and would probably be the only way you’d get any sympathy from me for getting a bad disease; because you didn’t know you’re boyfriend was a lying ass-hole.

    As for your point of it not being black and white, I’d sorta disagree with you. I understand that, yes, people with just one partner can get it; but the point is that there one partner must have another (be it human or needle) or else they wouldn’t have gotten infected either. To be honest, my boyfriend and I have a standing agreement for multiple partners … if you’re going to do it then make sure your doing it safely. By “doing it safely” I mean make sure you do everything humanly possible to not get infected (condoms, STI testing, etc.)

    I don’t get the condom resistance either … I don’t like the hassle of using them when I know I’m perfectly safe, but if I had any doubt I’d use one in a heartbeat. It doesn’t make it any less intimate (though if it’s with a guy you just met I’m sure the intimacy may already be lacking and not using a condom isn’t gonna fix that).

  21. jimberly says:

    I have really been enjoying this thread. I have a few comments that relate to the last several posts:

    1. As a huge proponent of new prevention technologies like rectal (and vaginal) microbicides, my first advice to anyone, once we have safe and effective microbicides available, will be to use a condom. Condoms are very effective. When used consistently and correctly, a condom is 98 – 99% effective. Microbicides will likely not reach that level of efficacy, and certainly not in the first generation of products.

    2. That said, if you don’t use condoms, or are unable to negotiate their use, microbicides will provide some protection where there is none. A 50% effective microbicide is better than using nothing at all. People should have the opportunity to make an informed choice!

    3. If condoms work for you, GREAT! Keep on using them. I will say the same thing once microbicides are on the market. Using a microbicide with a condom can provide extra protection in the event the condom breaks or slips… So, USE A CONDOM. But if you can’t use one, or don’t want to….

    4. We need to give people choices! Because condoms work for you and those you know, we should not presume that is the case for everyone, or try to push that on everyone.

    5. Interesting and sad fact: the number one risk factor for women around the world becoming infected with HIV? Marriage.

    6. In marriages and long term or committed partnerships, condom use declines or is non-existent. Many people don’t feel they can negotiate condoms in the context of such a relationship. And this may be putting them at risk for HIV and other STDs.

    7. Safe(r) sex requires negotiation and communication. Rules and boundaries. And when these are broken, communication is necessary, as difficult as that may be.

    8. My hope is to have a number of things in our “prevention toolbox.” Condoms, microbicides (delivered through a lubricant or perhaps an enema), pre-exposure prophylaxis, vaccines. We need more than condoms, as good as they are. We have to demand these things. Just yelling at people to use condoms won’t make them use them. And at the risk of beating a dead horse, not eveyone is in the position to demand condoms. I could talk on and on about power dynamics in relationships that affect HIV incidence, but that is for another time!

    Thanks all for a great discussion.

  22. I love number 5 … maybe they should ban straight marriage.

  23. Euphman says:

    There definately are ‘givers’ though; my friend who is trapped up in northern Wisconsin as an open gay man in an ignorant comunity, was contacted online via an instant messaging program by a man in Chicago who was willing to drive the six hours north, get a hotel room, and have sex with my friend. My friend found out that this man was HIV positive and wanted to “give” the virus to my friend; however, the man was not upfront about his status in his profile (he lied in it and said he was HIV negative) and my friend had to coerce the information. Needless to say, my friend refused.

    Quite frankly, it is a little bit disconcerting, to say the least.

  24. My thoughts on the Micro-goo:

    I would definitely use it in combination with condoms with buddies and maybe if having no-condom sex with my bf.

    So, yes, it would be a great addition to the prevention toolbox and for use in countries where condoms are hard to come by (assuming they could get the goo).

    But… I still think a lot of guys will start using it INSTEAD of condoms, because there are plenty of people who use condoms now-and-then randomly (which doesn’t make any sense) or always but very reluctantly, who will see it as an excuse to stop using condoms alltogether.

    For a lot of people it will lower their risks and for some others it will up them. But ultimately it is up to everbody to make their own choice and face the possible consequences.

  25. jimberly says:

    The phenomenon of people moving away from condoms once a new technology is introduced is called “condom migration” and it is something prevention activists consider very seriously…. (Condom migration, kinda like the gay moths) Anyway, on the site, there is a journal article called “Shifts in Condom Use Following Microbicide Introduction: Should We Be Concerned?” Here is the direct link if you are interested:

    The bottom line is that we will need to be putting out very nuanced and articulate messages around new technologies so people really and truly understand their risks. Microbicides will likely not be as effective as condoms, so while they will provide some protection, it will not compare and folks will really need to understand that.

    For gay men who have access to condoms but ALREADY are not using them regularly (40 – 50% of us), safe and effective and SEXY rectal microbicides will be MAJOR.

  26. Will give that a read, thanks! On a sidebar: check out the link to Jim’s sexy website in his profile – very many pictures of very many hot men! Makes you want to use that lube!

  27. The “givers” that Euphman speaks about need to be executed in the least humane way possible.

    I don’t understand why the micro-goo would result in falling condom use. It doesn’t stop the HIV virus does it?

    Also, make it a lube … enema’s freak me out.

  28. jimberly says:

    Our group has been circulating a survey about lubes used for butt fucking. Results will help scientists create a Rectal microbicide lube that people will actually like. Also, results will help focus other researchers who are doing safety studies on the lubes we use. To participate, go to and you will see links to the lube survey in 6 languages. So far, we have had over 7500 participants from 101+ countries.

  29. jimberly says:

    As for “gift givers” – thankfully, this is an extraordinary exception and so not the norm. Most people with HIV do all they can to protect others – this Is backed up by science – and most transmissions happen due to undiagnosed HIV infection. A larger percentage of infections happen quite early in someone’s HIV infection.

  30. Sid says:

    Fausto get off your high horse. I think you totally missed the mark with your assessment of bareback porn. I’m negative and I prefer watching bareback porn. It is a fantasy I’m glad to be able to view and in NO WAY does it compel me to go out and have unprotected sex myself. Furthermore it’s pretty much general knowledge that the porn stars in bareback are all positive themselves, so they’re not putting anyone at risk. I’d appreciate it if people like you were more willing to let others view their bareback fantasies in the risk-free privacy of their bedrooms without be shamed for it. If people get their bareback fix from a video they don’t have to go out and do it themselves.

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