FOF #2207 – Bro Jobs are Fierce

Aug 21, 2015 · 110697 views

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A new book “Not Gay: Sex Between Straight White Men” by Jane Ward is making folks more aware than ever that straight guys get into all sorts of gay fun.

But not everyone is cheering them on: Writer Zach Stafford says he’s way over bros wanting to suck the cock, but not walk the walk, and even worse, this phenomenon may even make things shittier for black gay men.

    Comments

  1. real critique says:

    amazing show, needs to be heard

  2. Bryce says:

    As a young black gay man in the southern part of the United States (from the same state Zach Stafford hails from), I needed this. I NEEDED this episode. I always like when Uncles Fausto and Marc have Zach on the podcast because Zach always makes bold assertions – BUT – he backs them up with research and factual evidence.

  3. Tim Webster says:

    I agree with your listeners critique of the podcast with Damon that it’s irresponsible to not encourage people to use condoms with Prep. You posed the question about other STIs one can get and although Damon acknowledges that prep does not protect against from anything else, but he dismissed that prep encourages bareback. He says people have ditched condoma anyway. But it’s very clear browsing hook up apps that men who may not have bb before prep are now engaging that behavior, which could expose him to other STIs because they are on the drug. Last time Damon was on the show I commented he was not forthcoming whether he was still using condoms and he responded without being anymore clear. I appreciate him being honest with his personal preference to bb, but as a healthcare advocate condoms should still be encouraged. I have read other studies that one’s risk of contracting hiv correlates with frequency of use. I had not seen that “4 days is enough” stat.

    I had just talked to my doctor this week about going on prep. She said she doesn’t push any drug onto her patients that hasn’t been out for 5 years or more, but she basically said any gay person who is having sex with more than one partner is “high risk” and she would put them on it if they asked her.

  4. Fausto! Churros are not the same thing as churras! Churros are a delicious fried dough dessert covered with sugar and frequently eaten with hot chocolate. Churras are, as you explained in the podcast, a form of human excrement. Not the same!

    Otherwise, great show with Zach Stafford!

  5. Bryce says:

    It has become quite difficult in this day and age to offer any constructive criticism in regards to sexual behavior and safe sex practices without someone accusing you of “slut shaming” or not being “sex positive”. The truth of the matter is, yes we live in a time where we could possibly stop the spread of HIV/AIDS … however, I do think we have to comment on the blase attitudes that a lot of gay men still have in regards to HIV/AIDS. HIV/AIDS is not the big scary monster hiding under our beds anymore. A generation watched in helpless horror as their friends, their partners, their lovers and their brothers died off from a mysterious illness while the rest of the went about their lives as if nothing was happening. In 2015, Prep is supposed to be our knight in shining armor and even porn companies that once swore they would never go the bareback route, ahem Michael Lucas, Randy Blue, etc., are now throwing the condom out with the bathwater. Ultimately, we are responsible for our own decisions in regards to what we do in and out of the restroom – BUT – we have a new generation who never knew that fear. Thank goodness I have older gay male friends and my mom who lived during those dark times who frequently remind me of how scary this disease (and other diseases) can be. Also – I work for a big insurance company and I still see a LOT of claims from men (of all ages) who are living with or who have recently contracted the virus. And those claims are not cheap. Not cheap at all. It’s a very sad state of affairs. So to the guy who wrote in – I appreciate everything you had to say. Most of us think HIV/AIDS begins and ends at the clinic. They don’t see the behind the scenes. The increasing stack of bills. The inability to afford the meds. Things have gotten better – but things have a long, long way to go. I think we should do everything in our power to promote ALL forms of safer sex. Prep was long in coming and seems to be working – but it is not our savior. We should still continue to do everything we can to protect ourselves and those we love. But ultimately, to each his or her on. This is my two cents. Again – a great episode! Love you Uncles Fausto and Marc!

  6. GaryS says:

    Gentlemen,
    Ok, so I zipped ahead on my FoF podcast queue because Im always anxious to hear what Zach Stafford has to say, but what do I hear? Fausto, reading my cranky ‘PrEP post’.
    Here is a clarification to a couple of the points:

    1) As I said in my response to Damon Jacobs, I got no issues with PrEP, whatsoever. However, Bryce and Tim bring up some very good points. And my feeling has always been that anytime anyone is touting a ‘Magic Bullet’, …..Duck!

    2) In no way did I mean to infer that you were receiving money from Gilead. I KNEW I should have put quotes around ‘advertisement’ in my first post.

    3) Mr Jacobs’ disdain for condoms is certainly his own business. However, my objection was with him citing his personal experience of “….having a guy not put a condom on until AFTER he rubbed his dick in my ass…” as an inference as to how condoms don’t effectively prevent STDs. Thats like saying that parachutes are useless and don’t work because “…. I didn’t pull the cord until AFTER I hit the ground and went splat.”

    4) We, I include myself, live in urban ‘Gay Bubbles’. I have a friend who volunteers on the National Gay and Lesbian Hot Line. He astounds me weekly with questions he receives from young people calling in from around the country asking: “Can I get AIDS from toilet seats?” “Infections can’t be passed on if your partner is cut, right?.” “ Can I get AIDS from sharing a fork/straw/towel/food/etc with an infected person?” etc. Myths that we thought were universally debunked in the 80’s are still being asked by young people. Even Zach’s response suggesting the availability of contacting ‘PrEP Navigators’ and Giiead’s Assistance plan misses my point that there are a lot of young people asking BASIC questions, and need BASIC EDUCATION on the risks of HIV infection. They need IMMEDIATE access to methods of prevention . Right now condoms are a lot more readily available to a sexually active (horny) 13, 14, 15 year old at a local health center, then ‘navigating’ a prescription for Truvada from a doctor. If they are asking if they can “……get AIDS from a toilet seat?” they need to be educated/reminded/encouraged to use condoms, NOW. And by the way, according to the Associated Press “ The number of HIV and AIDS cases in (Rural) North Dakota has grown dramatically in recent years as workers from across the country have flocked to the state because of its booming economy.”

    5) In my opinion, the genius of, and what I love about ‘Feast of Fun’ (and even when you’re drunk) is your freewheeling, unscripted, funny, wild, outrageous, dynamic, authentic, creative, anything goes format. Among other things, there is nothing that makes me laugh out loud more than when you guys start disputing a point with a guest (especially when its Brian Sweeney!), usually resolved by someone finally shouting in frustration “Google it, Loca!” There are opinions, and there are facts. And, when it comes to matters of health, when presenting information on a podcast purportedly to be ‘Debunking Myths’, especially when it effects children and young people I feel everyone really better get their facts straight. So condoms don’t protect against STDs? Actually they really do when used correctly. Thats a fact.

    6) And as for a point that needs no clarification, I unequivocally love you guys, DESPERATELY!! All my comments do come from a place of love. “I love ya more than my luggage!” And if you don’t know where that last line comes from, ask Brian, he’ll know. And if you still don’t believe me, check out my ‘Cooking with DQs’ order. You’re welcome. 😉 xoxoxo

  7. Marc Felion says:

    All good points Gary but I would like to just point out the theme of the podcast and the title of the show was “PrEP Myths Even Your Doctor Believes,” and not “Young People Don’t Know Anything About HIV.”

    I don’t know if you noticed, but we didn’t mention anything about PrEP use in Africa either and the rate of HIV infection in some of the African countries is at least a quarter of the population. There’s ALWAYS going to be a piece of information missing when you talk about something as big as HIV.

  8. jimmy Green says:

    I finally thought I would agree with Zach Stafford for once over his criticism of Jane Ward’s latest apologia for sexual violence in the guise of “theorizing” (let’s be honest – she makes shit up based on nothing more than internet mythology found on reddit or craigslist) but true to form, he has no issues with her sketchy methods, unethical manipulation of evidence, or her anti-realist/anti-science theoretical framework, he just disagrees with her political analysis! I suppose if you view academic research, particularly in the social sciences, as thoroughly corrupted by ideology and politics that you abandon any pretense of objectivity or rationality, then truth no longer matters and everything is subordinated to narratives of power and privilege. This should trouble people who purport to be progressive or leftist because such radical skepticism would make progress impossible and history has proven that marginalized minorities can join together to effect social change despite resistance from power elites. Stafford should be objecting to facile and ridiculous claims of queer theorists because they obfuscate rather than confront and challenge structural, as well as personal, heterosexism and homophobia. “Straight” guys aren’t having sex with men to validate their masculinity or heterosexuality – hazing is more often than not a form of nonconsensual sexualized violence akin to prison rape rather than light hearted “bro jobs” – and glamorizing this by ignoring the coercive power dynamics just because men are directing this at other men rather than women is just as insidious as the trivializing of date rape and the toxic sexism of some fraternity life that feminists have rightly challenged. Finally, while everyone can point to anecdotes, there is a level of confirmation bias amongst some gay men about the prevalence of “straight” men having sex with other men, whether its framed as “men just getting off” or porn fantasies about “turning” straight men and the “gay for pay” rhetoric which reinforces this homophobic meme that “straight” men are somehow the ideal sex masculine sex partner, decades of quantitative, high quality country level population surveys have consistently shown that over 90% of men have never had either sexual desire for or physical intimate contact with other men. The concept of MSM or non-gay identifying men having sex with other men was developed in the context of epidemiology and was focused on non-judgmental approaches to disease treatment rather than social justice. It was never intended and theoretically incompatible with the analysis of social identity categories and so to reify it in opposition to gay, lesbian and bisexual identities is problematic. Simply taking these narratives at face value rather than analyzing the homophobia and heterosexism that forces these men to deny their own desires and then to have so-called scholars obfuscate this injustice in the name of “nuance” is really inexcusable. But sometimes gay men are our own worst enemy and will defend the most homophobic “straight” jerks so long as they are hot and masculine. Stafford is a glorified internet social justice warrior who, like many on the post-structuralist academic left, has substituted queer theory for religion and like any other faith based reasoning, will defend the most idiotic “narratives” about social construction no matter how much they conflict with hard science. We aren’t all bisexual and most people aren’t on a bell curve spectrum and sexual desire, especially for men, is seems to be grounded biology and set early in life. While social and cultural forces are important and can shape how these innate desires are expressed and how individuals integrate these desires into a healthy psychological identity is important, any theory that views people as blank slates distorts reality and is just as dangerous as the loony creationist.

  9. Matt says:

    I think what many may be missing is the lack of willingness for many bisexual people who are there to a certain extent in the straight world to want to be involved with LGBT and there are a lot of us like this. We adapted to straight norms and our orientation is minimized to a kink type thing. Because we aren’t all feminine and for whatever reason you are all obsessed with the idea of some pig headed homophobe who is out of their minds falling for the queen who can’t find a man and it pissed about queens settling with queens. I only date bisexual men and we are out to each other and to most of our friends but many avoid the label due to animosity and rejection. And the bisexual community itself has potential to reach out but I for one have tried to support the so called LGBT community and after the rotten feedback, I have just said screw it.

    That said, this is probably some gay fetish shit formed from the idea that “ALL HOMOPHOBES ARE GAY” or maybe because the modern definition of homophobia is more accurately described as anything that a gay person disagrees with. But I think this book is tasteless and shallow and is probably a result of that broke straight guys shit you all love. Because you love to hate bisexual men but damn you can’t get enough of the homophobes. And since we get called closeted and harassed by some for falling for a woman again, I tend to wonder how many of these dudes were bisexual to some extent but really cannot relate. Also sometimes straight men experiment and then not. I mean this is flawed and most bisexuals are left out in the cold anyhow because of a lack of desire to want to be part of your side show. And no offense, it is overkill how exaggerated your scope on what homophobia is because one of my alleged privileges is being seen as more of a threat and being at risk for violence. I have been with three bi guys who each of us were labeled as straight just by assumption and people never took it seriously. It was assumed we were just “bros” who were having a hard time with the ladies. I will own internalized homophobia but bisexuals should be doing their own thing anyhow.

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