FOF #615 – The Zine Scene

Sep 21, 2007 · 1985 views

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No, we’re not talking about Marcus Couch’s fabulous indie music podcast, we’re talking about ZINES! Mini, short run, self-produced, filled-with-hypens, auteur based magazines. On today’s show were talking to local zine publisher and punk drummer […]


  1. Wow – the weight issue really got people going. My two cents: first of all, the images we see in magazines and on the catwalk are a bit fucked up, especially with this new/old heroin junkie/starved thing that seems to be going on. Being that thin is as unhealthy as being a lot overweight. Because sorry pc-peeps, but the things that make us fat are the things that clog our arteries. So being a lot overweight is NOT HEALTHY. And yes the causes are not only what we eat but also the lack of mobility nowadays, people sit around too much. That said, being a LITTLE bit overweight is not a big deal and just about aesthetics. I don’t judge people who are overweight unless they complain about it all the time while snacking themselves bigger and bigger. And if you don’t want people to make fun of you for being obese, then you can wait for the world’s attitude to change during your lifetime, OR work at losing weight. Not fair, but ultimately healthier.
    I have to agree with Fausto on the gender-issue. Some people get so theoretical and ‘meta’ about their sexuality that it makes me go cross-eyed. You just are what you are and if you happen to be something really complex and unusual, then you can not expect the world to just ‘get’ that. You will have to explain yourself and people respond a lot better if you do that with some charm and a sense of humour about it rather than with righteous anger when someone gets you wrong.
    I also have to say the word ‘punk’ always gives me goosebumps. I like the ‘not buying into the crass, commercially oriented society’ vibe, but in my experience too often it comes with bad hygiene (How does that help to change society exactly?) a lack of self-reflection (“I hate the government, but don’t have a job and collect money from them.”) and no coherent ‘battle’plan (“I hate mostly everything, a couple of random things are cool, but I can’t quite verbalise and defend my convictions rationally and coherently.”) Plus generally there is pretentiousness and a lack of a sense of humour. (“I am changing the entire world by – err – hanging around a bit.”) Basically – to me – most punks come across as follows: “I don’t fit in with society, so I am going to turn it around and pretend I never wanted to belong to it in the first place. More power to ME! So nyah!”

  2. I have to congratulate Marc and Fausto on this episode. Your skills really shined through as you got a good interview out of a guest who was uninformed and incoherent. You just keep getting better and better.

    When I lived in America there was a kind of person who my friends and I refered to as “socialist with rich parents.” It’s usually not a factually acurate label, but describes someone who has no personal experience with a subject but nevertheless has passionate held beliefs about it based on some fanciful theory and an active imagination. Besides the “socialist with rich parents” other good examples might be “thin guy who knows it’s great to be overweight” or “non-transgendered guy who gets offended by pronouns.” It’s fine to have opinions about things you have no experience with, offering them up without a decent amount of humility makes you look like an ass.

    I have an idea about the weight issue. Forget about the factual evidence that being overweight will shorten your lifespan and lead to many nasty medical conditions. Forget that our brains are hardwired to find beauty in symmetry and proportion. Let’s focus on the fact that being light feels better than being heavy. Boston-bob wrote earlier in the thread that he’s lost 50lbs in the last 4 years. That’s a lot of weight. I’d like David to get 50lbs of dumbell weights and feel how heavy that is. Then take those weights and weave a rope through them to make a belt. Then wear that 50lbs belt for a month, 24 hours a day. Wear it walking around the home, riding a bicycle around, taking a shower, having sex, walking up stairs, playing basketball, sleeping…all the time everywhere. After a month take it off and lead the same life style as before. Although you won’t have any experience with how difficult it is to lose weight, I think you’ll understand at least one reason why people want to lose weight and feel better once they do so.

  3. Rheaah says:

    The Podcast today on 09/24/07 is just really stupid, specifically the part and periodically in others, when I hear thinner people struggle with their weight, as if they just lost over 50 lbs but being a whiny bitch about losing .001 oz.-30 lbs. That’s so neurotic. I’ve met many people who’ve had cancer, liver and heart transplants, diabetes and they… were… THIN!

    I’ve seen and heard women (I look at ’em and say, “I sling one over my shoulder”) worrying about the ONE slice of pizza as if they’ve eaten a whole pie that is Chicago Style: deep dish spinach with extra cheese.

    I propose a mandate: unless a person weighs over 31lbs , they should be the only ones with the bragging rights of losing weight. I’ve come to the conclusion I that it’s good to stay in the middle: don’t look like one is either about to ‘blow up’ or ‘withering away like a corncob in the heat of the Arizona summer.
    It’s like the thinner people’s cornea has the function that acts like a fun house mirror when they look in their own mirror, and changes back when stepping away from it.

    I MUST agree with today’s guest, Mr. Freid, (sp) about the whole thing about needing a doctor’s validation to lose weight is just bullshit, the whole media blitz panicking supposedly about the threat of the entire country getting fat as if at ONE TIME, kinda like the so-called threat of communist propaganda taking over the country which never happened (why this analogy came to mind, I dunno), people who choose to gain weight for whatever reason, I really don’t care. IT’ S TOTAL BULLSHIT TO INFINITY.

    It’s just sad that larger people are easier to see and easier to bully and are negatively targeted, now that shit’s just wrong, but the people who are struggling with just a few pounds that only THEY can see is just a bit much.

    I don’t get the logic in people who’ve congratulated the hell out of a one person who lost a whole lot of weight and acting as if they found Osama Bin Laden. No ticker tape parade, no press conference, no nothing. No validation is needed after someone gives a look right behind it that congrat remark says “About time you lost the weight, damn!” This is what I call schizophrenic validation, it’s really not ‘validation’ but just as invalidating.

    Yeah, I can hear the proposal of all people who look like Pillsbury Doughboys getting blacklisted right now….

    I agree that not all thin people are healthy and not all unhealthy people are large; reminds me of an old Spanish saying.

    Fausto, may I suggest that you and Mark STOP TRIPPIN” ABOUT YOUR WEIGHT. I find it very irritating. I think the show would be much better if that topic is left out, WE GOT THE MESSAGE… Holy Lipids, Batman! AMERICA IS GETTING FAT and GOING TO FAT HELL IN A HAND BASKET , we gotta save the people!

    Geez, Louise and Oy Vey! Goddammit. You all sound very neurotic and I weigh more than you and I aint trippin’ ’bout mine.… here’s I post I sent in response to some dude who was trippin’, thinking that every woman supersized their fries and sit in front of the T.V. , even if some of ’em did, I don’t care, as long as it’s not me doing that.

    You will also see why I can’t find that guy’s post anymore.



  4. Rheaah says:

    Oh, and..


    PLEASE READ THE WHOLE POST before ‘yall start jumping down my freaking neck. If you can’t find humor in what I’ve said, then go find it, then, and grab a steamy cup of Valerian tea .

  5. pups says:

    This is the last thing I am going to post about this, because people are missing my point and getting fussy over what I said or what they think I said.

    1. Re: Weight.

    What I found annoying about the show, and brought up – was how sometimes the hosts and guests of the show act like losing weight is the most magical amazing thing one can do. Like it is the only worthwhile thing one can accomplish. I find that sort of annoying. It doesn’t matter what MY weight is. I think weight gets singled out as the one cause of all peoples problems. I think other factors that lead to health problems is overlooked or ignored, because its easier to just assume that all fat people are unhealthy and in need of fixing. I think working 40+ hour weeks in offices is unhealthy. I think fast food is unhealthy. I think fix-all-instant cures are unhealthy. And I think obsessing abotu your weight (I’m too fat / I’m too skinny) is unhealthy. Has anyone noticed how many instant weight loss ads are out in the media? Promising to fix whats wrong with you in just two weeks? Come on. To show that a /thin/ person such as me is outraged, must say how much I think fatphobia/diet-craze reeks of bullshit. And anyone who thinks fat people need sympathy or to be scruitinzed, they can just fuck off.

    2. Re: Trans issues.
    What I said to Fausto, was how I found it mildly offensive that he’d stumble over, or just plain ignore someones gender identity. I understand that it might be hard for someone to “get it” but you’d think that coming from a gay
    perspective, they’d be a little more open to chaning pronouns. These are the same people that talk endlessly about drag divas and such. And all I said was “before you interview someone, you can just ask..” and don’t be afraid to fuck up someones pronoun, but just don’t try to ignore it. It’s not me complaining about being offended, but more about trying to be a good trans ally, and inform people when I can about how they can be too. I wasn’t trying to cut anyone down or insult anyone, and you can confuse someones gender. And just because gender doesn’t matter to Fausto Fernos, doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter to anyone else who might be questioning their gender expression.

    3. Re: Everything else

    Thats all, you people can duke it out all you want.

  6. Rheaah says:

    Don’t get me wrong, ezines are fine, but I felt that the weight issue overshadowed it, that’s all. I’m a lover not a fighter, I just cynically pissed off at times.

  7. Dave,

    Where are the bears when you need them? LOL on fat advocates and those that are solid with one’s self image.

    Love the counter-culture perspectives expressed by Dave which includes poking holes in mainstream obsessions and pressures. People over-do many things such as work, eat, and live an excessive life. It’s great to point it out as not an achievement but a loss. Sort of like the winner of the rat race is still a rat!

    What peev’s me is the focus on one obsession in lieu of the balanced agenda. In generalities, those that obsessively workout seem to lose out in the end for being vapid and without perspective.

    Random thought: Andy Warhol poked fun at eating with an homage that well-displayed dinner at a restaurant is to be seen as a fashion accessory and not to be consumed.

    In the end, I thought Dave’s point about being “balanced” without application of “one note labels like gay” made clear sense to me. He is credible and should listen to the podcast called “Spooky in the City” to find kin-folk. Thought to also note that Bob Mould has a once/month nightlife event in Washington, DC called “Blow Off” at the 930club worth checking out. He is still active with his style of music and worth experiencing should you get here.

  8. Curtis says:

    I used to publish a zine – “Queer Fuckers Magazine”. ALl about being a queer in Utah, had lots of stuff about Mormons and queers, some erotica, reviews, poetry, radical queer politics and fiction. It was an offshoot of my activities with Queer Nation Utah. I was delighted to see it in the Queer Zine Archives! I didn’t know it was online anywhere. Very cool.

  9. I am completely on board with the Universal Health Care concept. The biggest problem with our current health care system is that it is completely and totally reactionary. Our doctors and hospitals rely on a few, brief, underfunded (and often under educated) programs to teach people about sex, hygeine, health maintenance, etc. We then wait untill someone has HIV or gets hit while driving unprotected to take care of that person…. that’s wrong!

    Number one reason people don’t buy condoms? They’re imbarrassed. Number 2? They’re expensive. Is that an excuse to not buy them, not really. But it is what is preventing people from buying them. We should not have to g0 to some stigmatized health clinic to get a special brown bag of the world’s cheapest condoms if we can’t afford the Trojans. We should be able to go to a pharmacy and get the condoms that work. We should be able to get a fitted and well protected helmet with every motorcycle purchase. We should recieve information and training on proper sealt belt usage when we buy a car. We should be getting vaccines for all common sicknesses. That’s when health care costs go down… not when you legally force everyone to have insurance and label that “universal” healthcare (thank you Dems… ). Hell, even the health care plans that companies are offering their employees encourage this reactionary status. I pay more for my plan so that I can go to the doctor when I want to and not have to worry about goig broke. But alot of the plans these days will not cover regular vistis. Hell, most won’t even cover a trip to the emergency room unless you are admitted!! If I can’t get in to see my doctor without scheduling an appointment over a month out, this is completely unacceptable!

    I’ll rant on this some other time, but that’s my next two cents…

  10. Curtis says:

    Here’s the cover of the issue in the archives – and yes that’s me licking the nipple. Me 16 years ago!

  11. “Queer Fuckers Magazine” I love the titles of the zines!

  12. Thank you for the great show.
    For me the Fat conversation did get my attention. I heard the word “chubby chaser” and that gave me the impression that Dave is into fat girls.
    I am not thin…but if others around me continued to support my unhealthy lifestyle and ignored my getting bigger I would not have changed.

    I was at 463 pounds about 4 years ago. I had the weight loss surgery. it was not easy, I have changed my lifestyle, I exericise..I don’t get to eat McDonalds. I have heard Ronnie comment that the surgery doesn’t work. She is right you can gain the weight back….you MUST change everything and stick to it, but surgery does work. I would love to be on the show to discuss this someday. I don’t have a great self image…weight loss did not change that. I will always look in the mirror and see a BIG girl but my life and the oppertunties in my life changed when I lost the weight. I am not thin but I can fit into normal size large now and I don’t have to shop at Lane Giant aka Lane Bryant.

    I really loved hearng about the Zines…I had no idea what a zine was before! Thank you for helping me learn somthing new as always! See you this Sunday!

  13. That scream you heard from the East Coast was a car load of my friends and me in total shock as Marc finally said what needed to be said for a lonnnnnng time. (Listen for yourself at 1:05:48 in this pod cast.) So way to go Marc. You da Man! (We hope you didn’t pay for it later.)

  14. In the spirit of full disclosure I must start by saying that I haven’t listened to the whole episode yet. I got about half-way through on the way to work and was enjoying it so much that I thought I would take a look at the comments.

    Imagine my surprise to find out that the part of this episode that I haven’t heard yet is so damn controversial! I can’t wait to finish it this afternoon. Thus far I have enjoyed Dave quite a bit. I found him entertaining on the show, and have enjoyed his comment posts as well. (He’s damn sexy too.)

    Ok, now that that is out of the way, I can’t get to what I really want to say. I’m a guy that most of you would, apparently, call FAT. Why so many people seem to think that my weight is their business though is beyond me. As a matter of fact, some people (Matt in particular) have a lot of fucking nerve. Can you say “asshole”?

    Not that I think that any explanation is necessary, but since the comments have been overwhelming made by thin people, or people are trying desparately to be thin, I thought that maybe a fat and happy gay guy should join the conversation.

    This is my deal: I was a chunky little kid, and my weight always managed to keep up with my vertical growth. My mom was a nurse and a health food nut, and we had very little in the way of sweets or junk food in my house. It didn’t matter how active I was or how much I watched what I ate, my body was always just very efficient at storing calories. I hated it. As I’m sure you can all imagine, being a fat, sissy teenager was not awesome.

    As I became an adult I continued to struggle with my weight, and constantly beat myself up and felt “less than” because of the attitudes that many people on here have expressed. As I said, my mom has always been very health conscious and, while always trying to be kind to me, was never able to successfully hide her personal distaste for overweight people. When I turned 30 I went on a year long mission to lose weight and “get healthy”. I quit drinking, quit smoking, became a vegetarian (maintaining a very low-fat diet) and started riding my bike everywhere. I did lose some weight, but never became thin. I reached a point that my weight wouldn’t budge below. Still “fat” as far as gay men are concerned.

    Somewhere along the lines in my 30’s I decided that hating my body was stupid, and that I should kill the little voice in my head that said I wasn’t worthwhile unless I looked like a skinny little twink. I started to work on body acceptance instead of weight loss, and have been much happier since then. In fact, at this point I am more comfortable with my body than most of my much thinner friends. You know, I have several female friends that have NEVER had a professional massage because they are too uncomfortable with their bodies to allow a masseuse to touch them. None of them even have “weight problems.” They range in size from a 6 to a 10. That is what our focus on “being thin” does to people.

    The fat haters always say, “it’s just a matter of health”. Sure, that can be a factor, but I think it’s generally a screen to hide behind for people that just find size asthetically unpleasing. Just like the people that use God as an excuse for their homophobia.

    I am a fat, 42 year old man. I have had NO weight related health problems. I have naturally low blood pressure, and my cholesterol tends to stay in the “high normal” zone, well out of the danger range. I do not have diabetes. Now, maybe these are all “Yets”, but at 42 I have seen many of my “thin” friends hospitalized with all varieties of health problems.

    I am currently officially single, but enjoy a terrific sexual relationship with a 24 y/o, thin, handsome college student/band member. HE happens to find big guys sexy……

  15. lis says:

    I’m running a bit behind on listening to the shows and I just heard this today. Enjoyed it, it was good to hear other opinions and I was also impressed by how well and professionally Marc and Fausto handled this interview. By the way, I also wanted to express that although I didn’t comment on that show I agree with Fausto 100% about the burning of the Koran and that it was an act of intolerance, destruction and extremely stupid and narrowminded. Good job everyone!

  16. cool show! made me wanna go make my own zine…

  17. I guess I kinda thought Dave was a jerk. He seemed to have hated everything and simply trashed on everyone. Isn’t one of the great things about FOF is we don’t hate?

  18. We don’t hate… with the exception of Esther, er I mean, Modonna 😉

  19. I agree with the people above who just didn’t dig Dave. I just… didn’t like him. *shrugs* But in his defense, at least he wasn’t as pointless as Alan Oken.

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