FOF #851 – Kneeling Before God

Sep 30, 2008 · 1985 views

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Gay people are the backbone of many of the world’s great religions, but sadly under difficult times these Churches scapegoat some of their most beloved members. High ranking Catholic Church officials blamed the scandalous cover […]


  1. RcktMan says:

    Thanks for this extremely enlightening show. As a former Catholic, who broke away from the Church because of so many things – including, but not limited to my being gay – it was good to hear other people’s perspectives on why they have issues with the Church (the “capital C”) as opposed to the church as a congregation of people.

    As a kid I went to two different Catholic churches and schools. Through Fifth Grade, I attended a fairly liberal, Vatican II church; and after that (due to incessant teasing from the kids there, which spawned a lot of behavioral problems on my part), I transfered to a very old-fashioned, Baltimore Catechism church. For those who don’t know what the Baltimore Catechism is, check out this link: You’ll see why I’m so messed up today. 🙂

  2. Rick, I grew up in a liberal, V-II church as well, but attended all the way through confirmation so that I would not “kill my mother”(her words of course). Everyone I knew in the church were Democrats. I was very surprised to find that there weren’t more churches like that out there. When our priest retired he was replaced with an ultra conservative nutjob. Many of the families that had gone there for years left.
    Despite the non-traditional liberal church and now I’m a Douglas Adams style atheist, I still have all the guilt. :-/

  3. Carlos says:


    I just wanted to state that christian fundamentalism, as we know it, is an early 20th century invention! It was created mainly in America as a reaction to modernism, intellectualism and science. Before this trend came about, the Bible was never taken literally by theologians and the church (though I am sure some ya-yas did nonetheless). The bible was seen as a book of stories and truth that one can use to find God’s message to humanity. It was special but not the inerrant word of God. For Roman Catholics, tradition held more power over the Bible, since it was tradition that gave you the lens to read it. Anyway, I can go on and on, I have a masters in medieval and queer theologies.



  4. I agree with Carlos in many respects, the puritans that founded what is now the USA were a weird bunch rejected by their own countries and who sought solace in a ‘new’ land. Anybody who thinks that the unconditional love of God can be bound between the covers of the bible is actually putting God into a box that ‘he’ won’t fit into. The tunes that God dances to aren’t the ones that we play! I heard Bishop Gene Robinson speak when he was in London recently and he made a very interesting remark. He said that it was important to remember that the church isn’t God, it is only our very poor representation of God.

    I really wish FoF would give more credence to those who are openly gay and openly Christian…

    But I still love your show!

  5. Curtis says:

    Great show. I want to comment on two issues.

    FIrst I don’t think there is anything unique about the current spate of revelations about the Church’s excesses and abuses of power. The current ones resonate, becasue they are the current ones. History is littered with the figurative and literal victims of Church sponsored violence, or reactionary programs to control members, of ways in which individually and instituionally the clergy has used it’s position of sometimes absolute power over congregants to get away with everything including murder. Those are simply vague stories of the past, many of which most people who ignore or hate studying history know nothing about, while the recent scandals are of our times, so they resonate more and give us the impression that it’s somehow a new phenomenon.

    Secondly in my view, no church gets to be forgiven for their gross abuses and the enormously negative impact they have on the world just because they occasionally feed the poor (invariably on their own terms and with conditions such as sitting through proselytizing sermons) or because for a brief blip of time they worked for social justice (how long did VII influence really have major impact – maybe for one generation?). Particularly as GLBT folks we have been the victims of highly organized, coordinated, calculated attacks against us socially, spiritually, politically and I personally am not willing to separate the institution from the members. After all the institution would falter were it not for the mindless obedience of the membership who fall in line, listen to the rhetoric and continue their donations and vote in line with Church proclamation. There isn’t a single “good work” done by any church that requires a church to be accomplished. It simply isn’t enough of a justification to dismiss their abuses.

  6. Ann Arbor in the house! Represent!

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