FOF #1382 – Gay Divorce, Canada Dry
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One of the biggest challenges facing marriage equality anywhere is that legislators often overlook divorce and international law.
Today’s show is all about Gay Divorce. One of our long time listeners, Wayne Hicks found love and had a Civil Partnership in the UK, but when a fight erupted in Canada, he found himself on the street without legal protection because their union was called a partnership and not a marriage.
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Comments
Another great show! It’s a bit of a shock to realise Canada doesn’t have a reciprocal agreement with UK over Civil Partnerships 🙁
Fausto! How can you hate “feed the birds”? It always makes me cry!
Did you know that the bird seller was played by Jane Darwell and it was a personal offer from Walt Disney to her? It was her last role in film – she started her career in theatre in Chicago in 1913.
I’m the one that hates her, not Fausto. As a kid she scared me and I don’t think I’ve been able to completely let go of that.
Great show!
It wasn’t really clear what the state of his case was in Canada. Just because the lawyer says they are not married doesn’t mean the state won’t recognize it as such. Is the case pending or moving forward? Is the Canadian court willing to hear it? How long has this all taken? Wayne didn’t mention anything about his own lawyer, if he has one, and what kind of legal advice he has been getting. Checking the internet for Canadian laws rather than talking to lawyers doesn’t seem very shrewd. It seems like he is being bullied by Gerardo’s lawyer, which isn’t a reason to cower- I have to say, I feel like I wasn’t getting the whole picture.
As tragic as the story is, it seems pretty hard to insist that the house was Wayne’s house, since it was in Gerardo’s name. If you put money into the house and into the business of a friend or family member, you can’t expect to get any of that money back- it was basically a gift. But I can understand how, in a divorce, assets are divided and, therefore, Wayne needs to have the marriage recognized in Canada and then go forward with the messy legal proceedings straight people do.
Wayne, if you want to look at the bright side of this . . . You’re probably in the law books as the first precedent setting job discrimination case in the U.K. . . . Now you can be in them in Canada too because this is likely to set a precedent for how future people in your situation will be handled.
That said what a hard situation to be in! This is what we’ll be dealing with in the future within the United States too with the patchwork of various gay relationships offered from state to state. Some will offer marriage, others domestic partnerships and others . . . Nothing.
For example, let’s say my partner and I decide to move to IA after we have our civil union in IL . . . Will we need to apply for a marriage certificate in IA or will our Civil Union be recognized? How about in the opposite direction? Just one example.
Hi there. I just read the comments. I do have a lawyer, but because of the infancy of Canadian Laws I have had to do a lot of digging myself. The case has progressed to the stage of a Case Conference between Lawyers and a Judge to come to a settlement rather than going the whole hog to court. It is at this Conference that the Attorney General’s representative is possibly attending.
If I was straight and this was called a marriage, I still would have a fight for my things. But I would not have been turned out of my home without any notice and just a threat of divorce court would settle an argument. In marriage laws in Canada and the UK, it does not matter who’s name is on the home, if you are married you share the home unless you have a prenup. And the money in this matter is enough to fight for.
I do try not to be flippant about details and there are parts of the story I didn’t talk about. Such as my partner wanting to move his whole life to London to be with me and then my entire move to Toronto and all the implications that went along with it. It is difficult. Because half my story is marriage recognition the other half is what happened to the relationship. Unfortunately this matter will go on and on and on….
This should act as a precautionary tale as to why we cannot accept second class citizenship with civil unions. Regardless of what they tell you there will be some loophole to screw you along the way. Separate but equal wasn’t a good idea in the fifties and is still not a good idea.
Another great show, boys. What an awful thing to have happen to a person. I’m hoping this all gets settled soon and he’s satisfied with the verdict.
Fantastic show!!!!
This situation is further illustration of why “Civil Unions” or “Domestic Partners” are not acceptable as a compromise position on marriage equality. Whenever you parse the language and accept the civil union/domestic partnership designation that may be intended to be equal in one jurisdiction but because of the semantic difference can be interpreted to be less than marriage in another, you will always have these technical interpretations that will tell a person in a civil union or domestic partnership that they do not have the same rights as a person in a marriage. Had their Union been called a Marriage in UK there would likely have been no issue here. This was all about the semantic difference.
There was a case a few years ago where Fedex refused to give benefits to domestic partners in New Jersey because they determined that because there was no marriage there was no need to consider partners married and worthy of benefits even though New Jersey had intended it’s domestic partner law to make them equal to marriage. We can’t play this game where we try to make bigots comfortable by giving up a real position of equality. Marriage or nothing.
Sugar, you’re too sensitive. You should listen to Marc and Fausto. We Americans can really fuck some shit up (like international diplomacy ,for instance, or our own middle class…), but we KNOW how to get divorced! Good Luck!